Missouri Senate candidate Lucas Kunce talks Josh Hawley, infamous state fair confrontation with WCPT’s Richard Chew
Last Thursday, WCPT’s Richard Chew talked to U.S. Senate candidate Lucas Kunce, a Missouri Democrat seeking to oust Republican Josh Hawley from the Senate seat he’s held since 2019.
Last Thursday, WCPT’s Richard Chew talked to U.S. Senate candidate Lucas Kunce, a Missouri Democrat seeking to oust Republican Josh Hawley from the Senate seat he’s held since 2019.
Kunce, who turned 42 years earlier this month, called his youth in Jefferson City, Mo., a “classic mid-Missouri story. My parents were 19 and 22 when they got married, and they did this little thing where they went kid, kid, kid, kid, and we ran into that paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle,” Kunce told Chew.
When his younger sister was born with a heart condition that required open-heart surgery, Kunce’s family went bankrupt.
“Ultimately, the reason we made it is not because country club politicians like Josh Hawley on the other side of town were there for us,” Kunce said. “We made it because the people in that neighborhood, who had no more money than we did. I mean, they passed the plate down at my mom’s prayer group for us. They brought more food by the house than we could eat, and they just really took care of us. And so, for me, it’s one of those blessings that I got, as a kid, to see the strength that everyday people have in our communities and the way that we can take care of each other when we have the resources invested in us and when politicians let us make our own decisions.”
After obtaining a juris doctor degree from the University of Missouri School of Law and losing a 2006 race for a Missouri House seat, Kunce joined the United States Marine Corps in 2007, where he was deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan.
“I watched our country light trillions of dollars on fire in a war for oil in Iraq,” Kunce said, “while that neighborhood [Jefferson City], that beautiful place, just absolutely fell apart because folks like Josh Hawley were waging war on working class people in this country. And so, I’m doing this race because I think we’ve got to fundamentally change who has power in this country. I don’t take any money from corporate PACs, no money from federal lobbyists, no money from big pharma executives.”
In the interview, Kunce derided Hawley for writing a self-help book called “Manhood” and called the Republican “the most extreme member of Congress” on abortion, in-vitro fertilization and contraception. (Hawley supports a national abortion ban and has cast Senate votes against providing Americans a statutory right to access fertility treatments and to protect an individual’s ability to access contraceptives.)
“He’s turned into a creep, and that gives us a real opportunity to win that you didn’t have before,” Kunce said.
The Cook Political Report considers the seat “solid” Republican, with less than a month before Election Day, but Kunce cited recent polls that show him closing the gap to four and five percentage points, which he attributed to the political ads he has run on TV during the past eight weeks.
“When we introduce me to people, my background, my service, how I grew up, and we remind them why they hate Josh Hawley, which they do — everybody does — it provides a real path to victory, and it’s really excited for us. I’m going to tell you what: That man is afraid, too.”
Below is a transcript of the interview.
Richard Chew: All right, I’m calming myself down because I’m excited about talking with the gentleman that we have on the line that is doing the hard work of trying to take down — and I mean that in the most professional of ways — someone that should not be holding the title of U.S. senator. And who we have with us this morning is Lucas Kunce from the great state of Missouri, as a Senate candidate against Josh Hawley.
Lucas, good morning, and welcome to “Chew’s Views.”
Lucas Kunce: Good morning. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Richard Chew: (Laughs.) Well, good. That goes both ways.
Listen, man, I’ve been following you for a while and your brand is just — it gets — it keeps growing and growing and getting bigger and bigger. But I’d like — you know, I just want you to be able to introduce yourself to our audience and the people that follow us, because as a progressive station, we want to make sure that we’re doing everything we can to support progressive candidates throughout the country, and you are definitely one of those folks right now. Tell us, tell our audience a little bit about your background and what your what your fight is right now.
Lucas Kunce: Yeah, thanks man. You know, I grew up in mid-Missouri, so not too far from you all. You know, it’s kind of a classic mid-Missouri story. My parents were 19 and 22 when they got married, and they did this little thing where they went kid, kid, kid, kid, and we ran into that paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle, you know. And great working-class neighborhood, though, just in mid-Missouri.
And, you know, the reason my parents stopped with four kids is because when my little sister was born, she had a heart condition. She had to be airlifted a couple hours away to the hospital, and she had three open-heart surgeries. And she made it, but you know what happens for a family whose kind of on the edge in this country because of how it’s been designed by politicians who’ve sold out to the health care industry. I mean, you’re just not going to make it if you hit a health disaster like that. And so, my family went bankrupt. I remember watching my parents struggle because they didn’t know not just if my little sister was going to survive but how our family was going to make it.
And, ultimately, the reason we made it is not because country club politicians like Josh Hawley on the other side of town were there for us. You know what I mean? We made it because — yeah, because the people in that neighborhood, who had no more money than we did. I mean, they passed the plate down at my mom’s prayer group for us. They brought more food by the house than we could eat, and they just really took care of us. And so, for me, it’s one of those blessings that I got, as a kid, to see the strength that everybody, everyday people have in our communities and the way that we can take care of each other when we have the resources invested in us and when politicians let us make our own decisions.
And so, for me, I spent a lifetime trying to pay that back. I became a U.S. Marine because some of the guys who helped us out were veterans. Got deployed to Iraq. I led a police training team there. I deployed to Afghanistan twice. And just what really ground me up about the whole thing was, you know, I watched our country light trillions of dollars on fire in a war for oil in Iraq, while that neighborhood, that beautiful place, just absolutely fell apart because folks like Josh Hawley were waging war on working class people in this country.
And you go back there now, man, it’s heartbreaking. The first house I lived in is an empty lot; you know, the one that I signed my Marine Corps papers, everybody brought the food by. It’s boarded up to keep the squatters out. And the little store on the corner where my sister and I used to walk by ourselves when we were six and eight years old, feeling perfectly safe to buy candy or whatever else, that place was shut down because it was robbed so many times it couldn’t get insurance anymore. And it’s just… it’s not right, man.
I think people take money from the wrong folks, and they just let them strip our communities for parts. And so, I’m doing this race because I think we’ve got to fundamentally change who has power in this country. I don’t take any money from corporate PACs, no money from federal lobbyists, no money from Big Pharma executives. You know, none of these people that just don’t care about all the rest of us and just want to, you know, [build their] wealth up and send it out to their shareholders.
Richard Chew: You know, it’s interesting, Lucas. I’ve got to tell you, your story is… it’s beyond the American story. That’s a story that crosses — I have to say this — cultural lines. There are folks that look like me and look like you that can tell that story, because it’s a-
Lucas Kunce: Absolutely.
Richard Chew: You know what I mean?
Lucas Kunce: I do.
Richard Chew: And that’s the brethren of us saying, ‘Hey, wait a minute, my Caucasian brother, Lucas, down in Missouri has an experience similar to some of the folks on the South Side of Chicago or the West Side of Chicago that don’t look like him, but that experience is there.’ Their neighborhoods were decimated by policies and people who didn’t give a darn about maintaining those communities. And that’s what’s so exciting about the way you’re approaching your campaign. But you raised a little bit of money recently, I mean with small-dollar donations. Talk about that for a minute.
Lucas Kunce: Yeah, man. Well, you know, I should, before we go on, talk about my own neighborhood. So, I mean, I grew up next to Lincoln University. It’s an HBCU. It’s a pretty — actually, heavily Black neighborhood. And you see over and over again that, like, mixed neighborhoods and Black neighborhoods are getting left behind worse than others, pretty much. And it’s just an experience that I don’t think it should be that way, you know. It should be the same for everybody, and it should be that we all get lifted up, not left behind. And it’s sad because when you mentioned everybody getting left behind, man, why does it got to be that way? Why can’t we all be lifted up, you know?
Richard Chew: Because they’re scared of us. Lucas. They’re scared of us.
Lucas Kunce: They are. They don’t want us to have power, man.
Richard Chew: That’s what Bobby Kennedy, Dr. King, Malcolm all were leaning into, that said — and I’ve said this numbers of times — that’s what they were leaning into and had tapped into. That’s what the unions — we had a great event yesterday with a labor panel here in Chicago, and that’s what we were talking about. The fear is for all of us to come together and then make it right for everybody that we want to represent. And you’re doing that. I mean, you’re on the ground doing that. And I think why you’ve gotten so much attention is because you’ve tapped into something that a lot of people want to hear in an unfiltered way.
Lucas Kunce: I think you’re right. You know, you mentioned we raised a lot of money. We do it $30 at a time. That’s our average donation. Everyday people in this state, they want some power back, man. And we all know that these guys are not going to give it up, right? They’re never going to give it up. Like, you can’t ask nicely anymore, right? You’ve got to take it from them.
Richard Chew: (Laughs.)
Lucas Kunce: I’m a Marine, man. I’m not that nice a guy. I’m going to be honest here, like, I’m going take it from them. I am going to take it. And I think that’s right. I think we have to take it back.
And you mentioned unions. We were at UAW yesterday. I got the earliest-ever AFL-CIO endorsement for a challenger in our state, because Josh Hawley is so bad on labor and because my entire message is fundamentally changing who has power. You know, my wife’s in a union down in her workplace. I mean, that’s how we get power. That’s how we have power. It’s organizing, and it’s coming together. And that’s what we’re going to do.
Richard Chew: You’ve had a number of union organizations that have backed you. The list is too long to read this morning and maybe I’ll put it out there in another way. But one of your great quotes is that you said something along the lines of Josh Hawley was saying he was pro-worker, which I think that that’s kind of a laugh to hear this guy say he’s pro-worker. But one of the things that’s frightening to me about Josh Hawley — and I’m going to call out his wife as well, because of their position on women’s reproductive rights. For a guy of that chronological age to have that viewpoint, it’s beyond scary. And I don’t use that often. But talk about how you see that part of the conversation.
Lucas Kunce: Oh, I mean, dude, he’s crazy. I mean, he is the most extreme member of Congress on this issue, which is like — I mean, there’s some people in Congress. Man, that is an accomplishment, and he’s had to work very hard to be the most extreme person in Congress on this. I mean, you know, you saw how a little while ago they banned in-vitro fertilization in Alabama. You remember that, like last year?
Richard Chew: Yep.
Lucas Kunce: Well, I mean, Josh Hawley was cutting edge on this issue. In 2013, he wrote an article where he said that in-vitro fertilization, the morning-after pill and any type of contraception that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg is abortion. Which, of course, he has said on the Senate floor is murder and that it should be treated as such. And it’s just like… so birth control is now murder, man? Like, that’s crazy.
And not only that, but he was one of the few people who voted against protections for pregnant workers. He was the only person that voted against, you know, an anti-Asian hate bill, and he also has come out said that we need to rethink the wisdom of no-fault divorces. Because, I guess, he thinks that it’s a shame that women can now get out of unsafe and abusive marriages. Like, it’s wild, you know?
He’s a co-sponsor of a national abortion ban. We’ve got abortion on the ballot here in Missouri this fall, constitutional amendment to protect our reproductive rights. You know, he has already signed on to a national ban that would override the will of Missouri voters, override what you all got going on in Illinois, override everybody everywhere. Right? And you mentioned his wife. She went into the Supreme Court and tried to ban mifepristone nationwide, which is how you get an abortion at three weeks or something. It’s just, it’s an all-out assault on our reproductive rights. And it’s one of the reasons we’ve really got to take this guy down.
Richard Chew: Yeah, we do. I mean, he is, I would say, in the Senate, it’s probably him that’s the most chaos-ridden senator from the GOP. And in the House, it’s Marjorie Taylor Greene. Now, they’re at the top of the list and they’re fighting for, you know, who’s going to carry the crown of being the most awful in the House and the Senate. But he[‘s] definitely wrong on the issue of women’s reproductive rights — which, as a guy, you know, that’s also reproductive rights in conversation for men and for potential fathers. And so, this is where I struggle — and I know you do — and we’ve got to take it from him. This is where this dude is. So I applaud you for being fully versed on this issue and unrelenting in how serious you are about winning this seat.
Talk to us a little bit about the fact that we’ve got — we had a person in that seat, who was Claire McCaskill. What do you think was the reason that she didn’t win, or that Josh won that seat? What took place in Missouri, in your observation, that caused that shift?
Lucas Kunce: You know, what people don’t realize — because they know the current Josh Hawley — is how he ran his first election. And our former, well-respected, moderate senator, Jack Danforth, a Republican, he made Josh Hawley. He raised a whole bunch of money, millions and millions of dollars for him, cleared primary fields for him, vouched for him, said that ‘Josh Hawley, he’s the next me, he’s a moderate, reasonable guy.’ Josh Hawley was like… I wouldn’t say he was moderate, but he was, you know, a country club Republican, like, lower taxes, you know, suit and tie, talking about, I don’t know, Teddy Roosevelt, whatever. Like, he was very, very like that and polished.
And, you know, in Missouri, if you are a Democrat, the way to win, which is there — I mean, Democrats won five out of six seats in 2012, and our state auditor won in 2018. You know, you can win as a Democrat. Claire [McCaskill] won twice. You kind of got to have a little bit of a damaged candidate on the other side and you’ve got to have a little bit of a unique story. And so, for Claire, she’d been in for 12 years, so any unique story you have has kind of just, I don’t want to say died down, but it dissipated a little bit. And then he was the next coming of Jack Danforth, as far as everybody knew.
But since then, I mean, he is what he is, right? He’s the coward of Jan. 6. He’s embarrassing. He’s the worst person on reproductive rights, which is on our ballot this fall. You know, he’s weird. I mean, he wrote a self-help book titled ‘Manhood.’ Like, it’s crazy, man.
Richard Chew: I saw that. (Laughs.)
Lucas Kunce: If your listeners think I’m joking here, no, Josh Hawley actually, instead of doing his Senate job and bringing money back to the state — which he’s brought zero back, by the way, which is painful, another hit against him — he spent all his time writing a self-help book called “Manhood” where he tells everybody that it would solve America’s, quote, ‘masculinity crisis’ if they were just more like him. Yeah, I mean, that’s what he’s been doing. He’s turned into a creep, and that gives us a real opportunity to win, that you didn’t have before.
And I will say this too: The man is afraid. I mean, you know, we started like 14 points down. The last couple polls, we’ve been four out and five out. We have closed the gap for just being on TV, like, eight weeks because when we introduce me to people, my background, my service, how I grew up, and we remind them why they hate Josh Hawley, which they do — everybody does — it provides a real path to victory, and it’s really excited for us. I’m going to tell you what: That man is afraid, too.
I don’t know if you got time for one more story.
Richard Chew: Absolutely.
Lucas Kunce: I could tell you one, but I don’t know how much time you’ve got.
Richard Chew: No, no, no. You go for it, man. We’ve got time.
Lucas Kunce: OK. Dude, I’m telling you, I saw it in his eyes. So, first of all, I’d never met the man before this campaign. And then last summer, we were both at the Missouri State Fair. And so I went up to go say hi to him, and he did his signature Josh Hawley move: ran away as quick as he could.
Richard Chew: (Laughs.)
Lucas Kunce: All right, there you go. I guess he asked — I guess Jan. 6 wasn’t a fluke, huh? It seems as though that in the year between last year’s state fair and this year’s state fair, he re-read his man book, ‘Manhood’ book, like, over and over again because, I’m telling you, he came as a whole different man this year. Just the craziest thing you’ve ever seen out of a U.S. senator.
And so, I’m at the state fair this year and I’m talking to this farmer named Wes, and we’re talking about Beef Checkoff programs, Big Ag, stuff like that, and we start to hear this really loud noise behind me. And I see Wes, like, looking over my shoulder. I turn around and it’s just like the normal crowd of people. And I’m like, ‘Yeah, all right, I don’t know what that is.’ We go back to talking, and then the noise starts to get louder.
And then out of this ruckus, I start to hear, ‘Kunce! Kunce! Has anybody seen Kunce? Is Kunce out of his basement? Is Kunce out of his basement?’ I’m like, oh my god, this party’s for me, right? I, like, turn around. I’m like, how exciting! And, you know, you get some — you get some crazy people out there, I’m not going to lie, who are very excitable. So I’m like, I wonder who this is going to be? Like, what wacko is going to roll through this crowd? And then, sure enough, plowing his way through the crowd, like, pushing people out of the way, Josh Hawley appears, again, plowing through this crowd, yelling my name, ‘Kunce, Kunce, where’s Kunce?’ Our sitting U.S. senator. It was crazy, man. He was, like, at the state fair, Friday night smackdown-style, like it’s WWE just going nuts.
Richard Chew: (Laughs.)
Lucas Kunce: Dude, I’m not kidding you. He’s all mic’d up. He’s got a camera crew trailing him, trying to get, like, a macho scene, I guess, that he can put on Twitter, and just like running up to me, yelling. And I will say this, though: cutest little Western outfit you have ever seen, man. It was amazing. Like, of course, he’s got the boots so he can get those extra three inches. But, I mean, this little plaid shirt, pearl snaps. It was amazing. Did you ever see that ‘Barbie’ movie?
Richard Chew: Oh, yeah. Yeah, my wife and I saw it.
Lucas Kunce: Dude, I’m telling you: Midwestern Ken. He nailed it. Like, hair was all blown out, little frosted tips. It was amazing. You can see the pictures. But it’s just like — he’s standing there and he’s just yapping up at me, yell, yell, yell, yell, and I’m just thinking to myself, like, what the? Like, why would a U.S. senator do something like this? And I’m telling you, it’s fear. He’s seen the same numbers and he’s grasping right now as he’s going down. And so, I don’t know if any of your listeners want to help us out, but go to lucaskunce.com.
Richard Chew: That’s where I was headed next.
Lucas Kunce: We could really use some help right now to close this gap.
Richard Chew: That’s where I was headed next, is how — and we’re going to have you back again, maybe right before the election, to have one last little push.
Lucas Kunce: That’d be great. That’s be great.
Richard Chew: But my honor is just to give you kind of the last word, Lucas, and let folks know that — our listeners all over the country — how they can find you and how they can get involved in these last, you know, three-plus weeks. Let us know.
Lucas Kunce: Absolutely. I mean, we need money right now. Our message wins. We’ve closed the gap so much. We are tracking to get there. We just need help staying up and introducing me and my story to folks. If you go to lucaskunce.com, you can donate. It’s K-u-n-c-e. If you’ve got friends and family in Missouri, please make sure they go vote. Make sure they do the right thing here. Remind them, you know, just what a bad guy Josh Hawley is and how sweet I seem to sound.
Richard Chew: (Laughs.)
Lucas Kunce: You know, whatever works here. Like, we’ve really got to do this thing. I mean, this is a key race. We win this one. And man, we will fundamentally change who’s got power in this country; like, this is big. And for us to be in this position is huge right now. Just anything you all can do. You can go to the website. You can also volunteer there. You know, we do phone banks, we do all sorts of stuff, and we just need all hands on deck on this one.
Richard Chew: Absolutely. Lucas, it’s been a pleasure to have you, man. I feel like I know you. I feel like I know about you. And it’s been a joy and an honor to have you with us this morning. We’ll try to do this again as we get closer to the election. In the meantime, have a great day today. I know you got a busy weekend with events that you’re going to be a part of. So take care and we’ll talk soon, okay?
Lucas Kunce: Appreciate you. Catch you later.
Richard Chew: All right. Be well.